tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11235100.post112499758361469313..comments2023-11-03T08:26:40.116-07:00Comments on THE DAILY APOLOGY: Quoting La MeStephan Kinsellahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07986650653184633661noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11235100.post-1127769097878348432005-09-26T14:11:00.000-07:002005-09-26T14:11:00.000-07:00Agree with your comments re: working for liberty f...Agree with your comments re: working for liberty for liberty's sake. I liken it to a singer who becomes popular or a trend that takes the country by storm - you have to work hard, you have to make the commitment, you have to get the message out, but for it to catch fire you also have to have a large part of the population that hungers for it (most don't have a clue) and it needs to be able to create its own momentum. You can work hard for liberty your whole life, and it may never happen. No matter, you will have made the world freer in some small way than it would have been without you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11235100.post-1125085344472060532005-08-26T12:42:00.000-07:002005-08-26T12:42:00.000-07:00I see your point but I think we're speaking at dif...I see your point but I think we're speaking at different levels. Could one honestly fight for the liberty of another for liberty's sake? The libertarian opposes force. The greatest force is the state. So to fight the state for liberty's sake also means to fight for everyone's freedom. No? We're all slaves to the governments.<BR/><BR/>I'm trying to get at this question: at what point does one become altruistic when trying to improve freedom? Surely if we oppose the state, then that improves everyone, even if they're state supporters. Is it possible to separate altruism from activism?<BR/><BR/>In other words, does one have to necessarily fall into altruism to fight egalitarianism by using popular support? (elections, etc.)Manuel Lorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04010591698176931270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11235100.post-1125084891531352232005-08-26T12:34:00.000-07:002005-08-26T12:34:00.000-07:00I just think that fighting for the liberty of othe...I just think that fighting for the liberty of others is a bit altruistic. I wish we wuld just admit this. <BR/><BR/>Second, look, it's like when you try to tell a plebe that his vote does not matter--that the same candidate will win no matter whether he votes or not. They fight this obvious truth. They say things like, "But if <I>everyone</I> believed that..." but that does not contradict my assertion.<BR/><BR/>Likewise, libertarians want to believe they can "make a difference." But if on my deathbed I judge my life by whether my fight for liberty was efficacious--I will think I was a failure, b/c we will certainly still have large government then etc. I think that is blaming the victim. And foolish and silly.Stephan Kinsellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986650653184633661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11235100.post-1125084623573180072005-08-26T12:30:00.000-07:002005-08-26T12:30:00.000-07:00So I see two things here. First, that when speakin...So I see two things here. First, that when speaking of liebrty, once should do so at the normative level only, since going to results-oriented talk, positivism, moral relativism and utilitarianism is being dishonest. <BR/><BR/>Second, that liberty has not been advanced at all. Perhaps a few things here and there but overall, our efforts barely make difference in the advance of the state violence. Therefore, could activism, then, only be justified if we eliminate all "gains" aspect of it?<BR/><BR/>If I understand the post correctly, then whatever one does and says for liberty must be gone for liberty's sake and not becuase such action is popular or persuades people.<BR/><BR/>Yes? No?Manuel Lorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04010591698176931270noreply@blogger.com